Philzone.org Discussion Board: Archive 2004: Politics Archive 2004: 24 die in attack on US bases mess hall

caught this story on cnn.com today. WHY THE FUCK DID THIS HAPPEN! how is it possible to hit a us base with a rocket. How can they be that off guard in a fucking war zone?!!?? I cant hear .. I cant hear said one of the soldiers.. How can it be that hard to root these butchers out? How is it so hard for the most powerful military in the world to quell simple peasent terrorism. How is it possible to let these bastards get the drop on one of your bases.. this whole thing makes me ill.. but atleast were winning the war...

the mortar have a 7 mile range. the rockets more.
when you lob mortar sometimes you get lucky
hardly newsworthy/must be a slow week

define 'winning'

Main Entry: 1win
Pronunciation: 'win
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): won /'w&n/; win·ning
Etymology: Middle English winnen, from Old English winnan to struggle; akin to Old High German winnan to struggle and probably to Latin venus sexual desire, charm, Sanskrit vanas desire, vanoti he strives for


it certainly looks like a struggle with some weird abu grahib sexual overtones

broomstick? anybody? bueller?

"hardly newsworthy/must be a slow week"

hardly newsworthy??? 24 U.S. DEAD- not counting all people involved, notice no mention of Iraqis dead, plus MANY maimed and injured, definitely newsworthy when considering they were not even fighting! Dudes were just eating grub and Whalup!

Questions need to be asked!

Why the hell are our soldiers dining in a TENT!?!

When is the next time one of our soldiers will feel safe eating a meal? You know what ~stress~ does to people? Makes them mess-up and without a little down time, some meals, some sleep ... our soldiers will be TOTALLY STRESSED! ~ making careless errors that may result in loss of life!

>When is the next time one of our soldiers will feel safe eating a meal?

apparently you've never eaten MREs

and they ain't that stressed--from what I understand the american pharmies work wonders til they hit stateside.

http://www.dscp.dla.mil/subs/rations/meals/mres.htm

>>>How can it be that hard to root these butchers out? How is it so hard for the most powerful military in the world to quell simple peasent terrorism.

Because that is a misconception and over generalization of who they are. They are real people who dont want us there. And every day, this sentiment grows. If we want to end this mess we have to start by trying to understand what drives them, Period! This cannot be won by force.

when their boys die, they are heroes defending their homeland against a heavily armed foreign military. little misconception there.

it's like if some euro military invaded the US--you'd expect everyone to play nice, give up their weapons, rollover and ask for a broomstick up the tail?

It's simple we went to war on the cheap for the wrong reason

KARMA on BUSH

Hoping the ghost of LBJ is plooking you in your sleep every night you piece of crap

>>This cannot be won by force.

Are you saying 51% of the electorate is wrong?

MSNBC:

"The deadliest attack on an American base in Iraq to date"

not very newsworthy


so THAT'S how they're getting away with no bad press

51% of the electorate voted for bush, not for the iraq war. we have the senate to thank for that.

the fact that we are fighting a guerilla war is why its so hard for us to "win." as was the case in vietnam, the enemy is hard to pinpoint in that they look like everyday civilians. its hard to find a target when everyone looks the same. its also hard to know who is on your side.

its scary that the area that was attacked is the heavily fortified "green zone." insurgents try to attack this area daily, but rarely hit anything of importance. i spoke to a soldier who was a medic in the green zone, and said that they experienced mortar attacks all the time, but he always felt relatively safe because equipment and munitions were on the outer layer of the zone, so when mortar actually struck, it was usually just supplies (and not people) that were damaged.

my younger brother is in the army. his unit has been placed on call for duty in iraq, but have not been formally called up yet. i really think that if ANY members of this administration (or both houses of congress) had a child in the military, they would be rethinking their reckless policies.

anyway, back to hiding under my rock. its safe and warm in here.

k.

>>How can it be that hard to root these butchers out? How is it so hard for the most powerful military in the world to quell simple peasent terrorism.

Hmmm ... guess Dubya skipped his history classes that addressed Vietnam.

>>hardly newsworthy/must be a slow week

Two of the dead and 12 of the wounded are from a National Guard engineering unit here in Maine. A Portland Press Herald reporter embedded w/the unit filed a story soon after the attack today. It certainly -- and understandably -- is big news here. Merry Freakin' Christmas.

>>51% of the electorate voted for bush, not for the iraq war.

Nice try, but I'm afraid that if you voted for Bush, you tacitly supported the war; the two are inextricably linked.

J-I-N-G-O
J-I-N-G-O
J-I-N-G-O
And Jingo was his name-o

Ready to concede that Bush is a failure Patrick?

>>> How is it so hard for the most powerful military in the world to quell simple peasent terrorism. <<<

See: Revolutionary War - American Colonies versus British Empire.

See: Vietnam War - VietCong versus American military.

Also, could it be that we a) underestimated the reception we would get; b) we didnt have an exit stratagy; c) we dont have enough troops there.

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED - BRING IT ON

And this mother fucker is the Man Of The Year?

>>This cannot be won by force. : Are you saying 51% of the electorate is wrong?

Since you put it that way... yes.

>>> 51% of the electorate voted for bush, not for the iraq war. we have the senate to thank for that. <<<

BULLSHIT BULLSHIT BULLSHIT

You have GOT to be kidding me!

a) a vote for Bush WAS a vote for this war. It validated and vindicated everything he did in his first term. From the lack of appropriate forces to Abu Gharib.

b) Blame the Senate? WTF. The Senate didnt draw up the war plans. The Senate didnt decide to attack Saddam DAYS after 9/11.

FUCKING BUSH LIED TO THE SENATE. He stood before them and warned of an urgent threat and WMD that NEVER existed. And dont say "they saw the same evidence that Bush did" cause we BOTH know thats bullshit. The Senate saw the evidence that Bush/Cheney selected very carefully - evidence that was plain bullshit (see: Yellow Cake uranium, unmanned attack planes, mobile weapon labs, etc...).

>>> 51% of the electorate voted for bush, not for the iraq war. we have the senate to thank for that. <<<

Jezzus, I cant help it - but this just totally freaks me out.

ANYONE who voted for Bush voted for the war in Iraq. They voted for the abuses in Gitmo and Abu Gharib, they voted for The Patriot Act, the tax cuts, the corporate asslicking, the discrimination against gays, the joining of church and state, and the impending rape of Social Security.

IF YOU VOTED FOR BUSH - IT'S YOUR FUCKING PARTY... AND YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE NEXT FOUR YEARS. YOU VINDICATED AND VALIDATED EVERYTHING THEY HAVE DONE.

PERIOD.
THE END.

>>> 51% of the electorate voted for bush, not for the iraq war. we have the senate to thank for that. <<<

I try to let the run of the mill stupid comment pass, as I've made plenty myself...

...but this one is so stupid, I just had to say so.

What Jeff said.

ANYONE who voted for Bush voted for the war in Iraq. They voted for the abuses in Gitmo and Abu Gharib, they voted for The Patriot Act, the tax cuts, the corporate asslicking, the discrimination against gays, the joining of church and state, and the impending rape of Social Security.


Right on, Jeff.
I concur absofuckinlutely!

alright, alright. no need to attack me - i'm on your side people. all i was saying is that the senate (including john kerry - who i VOTED for) voted for the iraq war, and they should have known better. i understand that they were given false information when they made their decision and voted (by a sweeping majority) for the war. even i knew that the "intelligence" was bullshit. a monkey should have known that giving gw that kind of authority is a disaster in the making. i never believed any of it (wmd, uranium, "iraqi freedom," etc).

the 51% who voted for bush voted to CONTINUE the iraq war. they showed that they support bush's policies by voting for him.

you guys are pretty quick to attack (and assume that i'm taking a political position) when all i was trying to say is that we wouldn't even be in this position if our senators would have voted their conscience instead of being fucking SHEEP.


>>> 51% of the electorate voted for bush, not for the iraq war. we have the senate to thank for that. <<<

BULLSHIT BULLSHIT BULLSHIT

You have GOT to be kidding me!

a) a vote for Bush WAS a vote for this war. It validated and vindicated everything he did in his first term. From the lack of appropriate forces to Abu Gharib.

b) Blame the Senate? WTF. The Senate didnt draw up the war plans. The Senate didnt decide to attack Saddam DAYS after 9/11.

FUCKING BUSH LIED TO THE SENATE. He stood before them and warned of an urgent threat and WMD that NEVER existed. And dont say "they saw the same evidence that Bush did" cause we BOTH know thats bullshit. The Senate saw the evidence that Bush/Cheney selected very carefully - evidence that was plain bullshit (see: Yellow Cake uranium, unmanned attack planes, mobile weapon labs, etc...).

>Why the hell are our soldiers dining in a TENT!?!

they were tired of sand in their clam chowder?

Ok, fair enough, sorry for the anger... and, yes, Im quick to attack (just like W) but Im just soooo sick of it.

I place some of the blame on the Senate - but we REALLY wouldnt be in this position if BushCo hadnt thought a nice little war in the desert was:

a) a way to make their handlers rich(er)
b) a valid geo-political theory of democracy through war.
c) a way to keep winning elections, like forever.

And, did we mention that the Senate was lied to? And the Senate doesnt make the war plans, dont have a SecDef that scoffs at the advice of career military men, the Senate didnt piss on backs of our allies, they dont ok abuse and torture, get involved in someshit with out proper armour, men, or an exit stratagy.

Yes, the Senate enabled Bush - but this fucker lies with him.

Again, sorry for jumping outta my skin, but this shit is just so sad - only thing sadder is the sheep that still buy the bullshit they are being fed.

>>> you guys are pretty quick to attack (and assume that i'm taking a political position) when all i was trying to say is that we wouldn't even be in this position if our senators would have voted their conscience instead of being fucking SHEEP. <<<

PATRICK,they're dying everyday or did u just wake the fuck up! thanks to your buddy george W (one hell of a president,NOT!!!)

>> ... Man Of The Year?

Take heart.

Time chooses the "Person of the Year" based on
who "for better or worse" (as Time founder Henry
Luce expressed it) had most influenced events of
the preceding year.

Here is the complete list of previous recpients
that Time chose to honor (1927-2003).

Bush has found his niche.

1942: Joseph Stalin
"The U.S.'s new ally in war against Hitler."

1939: Joseph Stalin
"Paved the way for Hitler's war by signing
secret pact with old enemy."
(good ol' Joe)

1938: Adolf Hitler
"His figure strode over Europe with all the
swagger of a conqueror."
(sound familiar?)

In 1938, the Times cover picture featured Hitler
playing "his hymn of hate in a desecrated
cathedral while victims dangle on a St.
Catherine's wheel and the Nazi hierarchy looks
on."

Pictures of the torture at Abu Ghraib would have
been more appropriate for Bush's cover picture;
or how about a shot of Bush comically mugging
looking for weapons of mass destruction under
his desk in the Oval Office. Or perhaps
pictures of the destruction rained upon the
citizens of Fallujah by the aerial bombing of
their city and homes (oops - there are no useful
unclassified pictures - never mind). Or maybe
pictures of the wire pens "the free speech
zones" that have redefined free speech and the
right to civil dissent in the United States.

It is ironic how assiduously the administration
avoided the term insurgents early on (Rummy
liked to call them dead-enders). Now they’ve
embraced the term insurgents (and interchange it
freely with terrorists) – sounds so much better
than “loyal citizens fearlessly defending their
country in the face of superior force and
overwhelming odds.”

Flash - and this just in from MSNBC...
"Santa Claus has been given clearance to enter
U.S. airspace."

Welcome to the land of the free and the home of
the brave.

It's good to be a super power.
Even better to be President of a super power...

"As I told Bob Woodward, the nice thing about
being president is that I don't have to explain
myself to anyone." ~GWB

"As I told Bob Woodward, the nice thing about
being president is that I don't have to explain
myself to anyone." ~GWB

>>Bush has found his niche.

1942: Joseph Stalin
"The U.S.'s new ally in war against Hitler."

1939: Joseph Stalin
"Paved the way for Hitler's war by signing
secret pact with old enemy."
(good ol' Joe)

1938: Adolf Hitler
"His figure strode over Europe with all the
swagger of a conqueror."
(sound familiar?)



Shrub is lumped in with the right group of people.

Patrick, you are so helplessly clueless about the nature of war, and history, you are perfectly qualified to one of W's military advisors.

Bush admitted this week that everything he said about Iraq during the election campaign was a LIE.
The Iraqi "forces" are a total farce, completely useless for battle, and riddled with spies and infiltrators.

Turns out the Mosul bomb was a suicide job, simply walked into the middle of the mess tent and let loose mindless savage fatal destruction.

Why can't we stop it? Because it is a civil war, a lot like Vietnam, and you can't tell friend from foe.

Hope you don't have kids of a draftable age (I do and I'm worried as shit....this is so frickin similar to Vietnam it is amazing).

Oh, and by the way, based on other news this week:

- hope you weren't counting on social Security.
- hope you enjoyed wilderness and the environment while we had it.

Thanks for voting for Bush ....idiots.

>>> Hope you don't have kids of a draftable age (I do and I'm worried as shit....this is so frickin similar to Vietnam it is amazing). <<<

Well, do like a friend of mine suggested - "they can get my kid when they kill me or I run out of ammo".

Never, no fuckin how would I let my child be part of Bush's meatgrinder.

And, yes, Patrick - dont think Im bashing ya, but ARE YOU JUST NOW NOTICING WHAT KIND OF CLUSTER FUCK YOUR PRESIDENT'S WAR REALLY IS?

Guess not even Fox News can cover-over the smell when it's that stanky.

As a service member, it worries me that 3rd country nationals are being used as "extra help" in our bases. The fact that our security and screening of workers on base is as such that a suicide bomber could get on the base is VERY concerning. The entire situation is a huge cluster fuck and we need to pull out as soon as the elections are certified. If they want to blow each other up, let them. A single Iraq with 3 distinct factions is almost impossible to sustain without a dictatorship. The Sunnis and the Shiites will keep attacking each other while the Kurds attack all the muslims fighting ech other. Rather than keeping a unified Iraq, we needed to draw up a plan to divide up the country into 4 different countries- Shiiteville, Sunniville, Kurdland, and Palestine. The reason I say we give Palestine a piece of the action is so that they can get some land with natural resources that can actually be used in the global economy. Selling off suicide bomb belts will only stay viable so long as we keep slighting the Palestinians and trying to keep Iraq a unified country. Allow each of the factions a bit of land with some oil or some other natural resource so that they can create an economy that will allow them to play in the world market. That's all I feel like typing for now, but this in no way fully reflects the lack of trust I have for the civilians who control my military. That's an essay waiting to be written....

Thanks Dude

You are in the service, are you in Iraq? I find your words rational and supect you might be in frequent disagreement with your brothers in arms?

Patrick, you are so helplessly clueless about the nature of war, and history, you are perfectly qualified to one of W's military advisors.



What?? God.. I damned if I do and damned if I dont.. For my own curiosity, what makes you qualifed to speak on the "nature of war, and history..?"

sigh...

I read.

I also grew up during Vietnam, my peer group was the last of the draftees (the guys older than me, i ran with an older crowd).

I was paying attention during 1969.
I have read half a dozen histories of Vietnam.
I read the paper during the war.

I was young but not stupid.
It scared the shit out of me, frankly.
Civil war is a terrible thing to try to mediate with force.

The similarities to Vietnam are VERY scary...why do you think massacres of civilians happen? The poor troops don;t know who to trust (answer: nobody from Vietnam/Iraq).

Horrible sensless war with our troops in the middle, with no exit strategy, no way to win.

It is very depressing, Patrick.

Bush was not alone in deciding to go to war, many others, including Kerry, went along.

But it was stupid, expensive, and is killing way too many US Soldiers and innocent civilians.

With...no...end...in...sight.

I say we send all of the Bush people that supported the war and every representative and senator that voted for it to fight it on the front lines.

From Jackson Browne:

LIVES IN THE BALANCE

I've been waiting for something to happen
For a week or a month or a year
With the blood in the ink of the headlines
And the sound of the crowd in my ear
You might ask what it takes to remember
When you know that you've seen it before
Where a government lies to a people
And a country is drifting to war

And there's a shadow on the faces
Of the men who send the guns
To the wars that are fought in places
Where their business interest runs

On the radio talk shows and the T.V.
You hear one thing again and again
How the U.S.A. stands for freedom
And we come to the aid of a friend
But who are the ones that we call our friends--
These governments killing their own?
Or the people who finally can't take any more
And they pick up a gun or a brick or a stone
There are lives in the balance
There are people under fire
There are children at the cannons
And there is blood on the wire

There's a shadow on the faces
Of the men who fan the flames
Of the wars that are fought in places
Where we can't even say the names

They sell us the President the same way
They sell us our clothes and our cars
They sell us every thing from youth to religion
The same time they sell us our wars
I want to know who the men in the shadows are
I want to hear somebody asking them why
They can be counted on to tell us who our enemies are
But they're never the ones to fight or to die
And there are lives in the balance
There are people under fire
There are children at the cannons
And there is blood on the wire

(c) 1986 SWALLOW TURN MUSIC, ASCAP

FOR AMERICA

As if I really didn't understand
That I was just another part of their plan
I went off looking for the promise
Believing in the Motherland
And from the comfort of a dreamer's bed
And the safety of my own head
I went on speaking of the future
While other people fought and bled
The kid I was when I first left home
Was looking for his freedom and a life of his own
But the freedom that he found wasn't quite as sweet
When the truth was known
I have prayed for America
I was made for America
It's in my blood and in my bones
By the dawn's early light
By all I know is right
We're going to reap what we have sown

As if freedom was a question of might
As if loyalty was black and white
You hear people say it all the time-
"My country wrong or right"
I want to know what that's got to do
With what it takes to find out what's true
With everyone from the President on down
Trying to keep it from you

The thing I wonder about the Dads and Moms
Who send their sons to the Vietnams
Will they really think their way of life
Has been protected as the next war comes?
I have prayed for America
I was made for America
Her shining dream plays in my mind
By the rockets red glare
A generation's blank stare
We better wake her up this time

The kid I was when I first left home
Was looking for his freedom and a life of his own
But the freedom that he found wasn't quite as sweet
When the truth was known
I have prayed for America
I was made for America
I can't let go till she comes around
Until the land of the free
Is awake and can see
And until her conscience has been found

(c) 1986 SWALLOW TURN MUSIC, ASCAP

A guy that lives four blocks from me got blown away in that mess tent. He was a poneytailed sixty one year old civilian carpenter who was there building the permanent messhall.
He'd lived in this small town all his life-had a zillion friends- people are really bummed out here.

Since these bases are like a mash unit, torn up and down it is not uncommon that soldiers, eat in mess Tents. And whether they are safe or a building is safe.....neither! One missile, grenade,or makeshift bomb and lives are lost unnecessarily.

I'm stateside awaiting a MEB so I can be medically discharged/retired. My biggest problem with the way our civilian military leaders seem to be running things is they act first and think later, if they remember to get around to it. I was injured in a new fitness program. They seemed to think it was a good idea to make everyone test by a certain day- not opposed to that in principle. What irks me is that they didn't think that maybe there should be an exemption for people who had knee surgery only 3 weeks earlier.

Long story short, nerve damage in the fitness evaluation> neurological disorder> tons of pain, long wait for administrative process> something that hasn't happened yet
e: return to CA> VA health system

what a smoking setlist... :|