Philzone.org Discussion Board: Archive 2004: Politics Archive 2004: Kerry will win Ohio and become President!

This was on Cspan thursday if you hadn't heard.

Cliff Arnebeck, Alliance for Democracy attorney and supporter of McCain in 2000, and former Republican was on Cspan.org and said he found 65,000 votes that migrated from Bush to Kerry meaning Kerry really won Ohio. He is filing a lawsuit this week.

Bush "won" ohio by 119000 votes, but if 65000 change hands then Kerry will WIN by 11000 and thus be our next president!!! Remember the electoral college vote isn't certified by congress until january. This baby is far from over!

wouldn't that be special.

I highly doubt the election will be given (rightfully) to Kerry. I do dream it will come true. If that were to happen, I will be throwing a very large party that could accomidate many zoner appearances. (I wonder what it would cost to rent out one of those beer trucks with the taps on the side)

This is pathetic.

What is pathetic Johnny? Don't forget, Democrats are smarter than pugs, and its only a matter of time before we get you guys back on your leash. We just do it the legal way so it takes a little longer. Its also more satisfying to see your enemy disgraced, not just defeated. Hey, its fun thinking like an asshole pug!

"Pathetic" are those that believe that Bush won this election fair and square. But it would be easy to prove if the pugs in charge would simply let us count the votes. Instead we are told to get over it. Doesn't build confidence. If you are so sure you won, why don't you ask your senator to support investigations? Then when you prove you won, stupid liberals like me will have to shut up forever. But for now you haven't proven shit. So Prove It! Or are you afraid the proof might not be in your favor?

Johnny - you are pathetic.

hum... you would think this would be huge news; I havent heard anything about it yet?

Corporate media doesn't want you to know. They are a tool of the governemnt.

question is, Kerry officialy conceeded... can he recant and is that binding?

Whether he concedes or not - the voters determine the election. And he can take back the concession.

No all of you are pathetic. Even Michael Moore who comes up with more paranoid conspiracy theories than anyone else has said that Bush won fair and square.

well johnny, you just keep listening to mr. moore then.

I don't know if there is ant truth to the validity of these theories, but since Bush cheated the last time it makes them hard to ignore.

>>well johnny, you just keep listening to mr. moore then.

The people on this board listen to Michael Moore like he is preaching the word of God but when even he admits that Bush won you just ignore it? That doesn't make any sense.

Just read in Allentown Morning Call that more than this Attorney is protesting the votes. There was a petiton a month ago to Congress for investigation! I would pray that we do the right thing. Little hypocritical to tell other countries to be Democratic when we aren"t

They did it in the Ukraine...

http://www.spidel.net/ohblackwellltr12204.pdf

it will be harder for the Media to ignore this

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/index.php?id=493


See I told you even Michael Moore admits that Bush won. You are all pathetic!!!

I don't listen to Moore "like he is preaching the word of god" at all. In fact, I probably give more scrutiny to his claims than anyone else in the political world. I think for myself, and apparantley you don't. There is a great amount of evidence that the election was not on the up and up. Even if Kerry had won on Nov 2, I would want this investigated and changes to be made for the future. It is very dangerous for our country to allow a regime to become larger than the democratic process.

looks like CNN is calling the Ohio vote offical
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/12/06/democrats.ohiovoting.ap/index.html

>>See I told you even Michael Moore admits that Bush won. You are all pathetic

Mighty strange how all of a sudden someone like yourself would be quoting Michael Moore as a source when all you've done is raged against everything he said up til the election.

M. Moore is just 1 of many voices.

How do you figure your math? If Bush won by 119,000 and gives up 65,000, then he still wins by 54,000. Am I missing something?

No - the 65,000 get taken from Bush and then added to Kerry - Kerry wins by 11,000.

>>Mighty strange how all of a sudden someone like yourself would be quoting Michael Moore as a source when all you've done is raged against everything he said up til the election.

only strange to a dimwit. He is probaly one of the most left leaning figures in American politics. When he says Kerry lost you know its true. This supports what I've been saying: that Kerry lost.

Michael Moore is one of the most left leaning figures in American politics? How about the anarchists or the communists? Michael Moore is a left leaning middle of the road person if you ask me.

I thought he was in the entertainment biz with Ron Silver and Governer Grope

>>Moore is a left leaning middle of the road person if you ask me.

no reasonable person would say that michael moore is "left leaning middle of the road." You want to say that he isn't just for the sake of arguing. Give it up already, Kerry lost.


>>I thought he was in the entertainment biz
Yea this is what he says whenever someone critiques his work. "its just a satire" Being the weasel that he is he tries to have it both ways.

How is Michael Moore an extreme liberal. do you know anything about his position on various issues? Please expound.

Bush "won" ohio by 119000 votes, but if 65000 change hands then Kerry will WIN by 11000 and thus be our next president!!! Remember the electoral college vote isn't certified by congress until january. This baby is far from over!


I dont want to piss on your parade.. but 119,000>65000. So if Bush won by 119000 votes and they are going to give kerry 65000 votes how will he be ahead by 11000 votes? Are you using the Farakhan school of Math???

By the way .. Ohio officially certified their votes the other day. good luck with allllll that

>>So if Bush won by 119000 votes and they are going to give kerry 65000 votes how will he be ahead by 11000 votes? Are you using the Farakhan school of Math???

Because they are going to subtract the votes from Bush and give them to Kerry. It is a case of votes for Kerry being counted for Bush. Basic math. If you have $100 and I have 40 but it turns out that you stole $50 from me, you have to give me back the $50 you stole. I know have $40 I started with plus the $50 that you gave me back, or $90. You have the $100 you started with less the $50 you gave me back, or $50. I now have more money than you do.

Ohio certified now there will be a recount.

Certified and now the recount starts

So even though he makes Movies, documentary style about real events or whatever, and doesn't hold public office / isn't running, etc. he tries to have it both ways ? So if a musician writes a political song he's a politician trying to have it both ways too ?

Hmmmm sounds like Conservative TV you're describing, Enter-News if you will

Because they are going to subtract the votes from Bush and give them to Kerry. It is a case of votes for Kerry being counted for Bush. Basic math. If you have $100 and I have 40 but it turns out that you stole $50 from me, you have to give me back the $50 you stole. I know have $40 I started with plus the $50 that you gave me back, or $90. You have the $100 you started with less the $50 you gave me back, or $50. I now have more money than you do.


I understand what your saying.. but the way its presented reads like they are taking 65000 votes from Bush's victory margin of 119000. This would leave Kerry with a 54000 vote deficit. Ahh fuck.. I see it now.. jesus I no do math good..

>>jesus I no do math good

it's OK, Shrub will get Jesus to personally tutor you

>>jesus I no do math good

it's OK, Shrub will get Jesus to personally tutor you


me sure hope so.. i no thank well no mo .. To think I passed calculus with a B... god my teacher would have smacked me if he read this thread...

The way it appears to me is that 65,000 votes that were counted for Bush were really Kerry's.
Hence, the Kerry win.

Negman, google the affadavit filed 12-6 by Clint Curtis. Wow.
http://www.independent-media.tv/item.cfm?fmedia_id=10034&fcategory_desc=Under%20Reported

65,000 votes from bush to kerry equals a 11,000 vote win by kerry. unfortunately these fuckers (bush inc.) play for keeps, are very happy with the outcome of their expert vote rigging, and have no plans what so ever to let kerry become president. (its not part of the new world order plan!)

indeed, its not over.
people are aware.

>>How is Michael Moore an extreme liberal. do you know anything about his position on various issues?


If you think he is "a middle of the road liberal" then you have not seen farenheit 9/11.

F9/11 is just an indictment of Bush's failures. Please show me some documentation that MM has far-left beliefs.

>>Cliff Arnebeck, Alliance for Democracy attorney and supporter of McCain in 2000, and former Republican was on Cspan.org and said he found 65,000 votes that migrated from Bush to Kerry meaning Kerry really won Ohio. He is filing a lawsuit this week.


Has this been confirmed by anyone else?

The case will be filed at 9 am, Monday December 13th. Congressman Conyers is sending a letter requesting injunctive relief of the Ohio electors - ie that they either step aside or vote provisionally pending the outcome of the case. The case will be filed amid much media attention and should be a front page story in major newspapers across the country on Monday. It is now representing 40 Ohio citizens.

Probaly wont get any media attention.

This will bud. The link I posted didn't work for me but there is a lot going on Mon in OH , I assure you.

"
In sworn affidavit, programmer says he developed vote-rigging prototype for Florida congressman; Congressman’s office silent.
DEVELOPING TUESDAY A.M.: RAW STORY exclusive interview with programmer

By John Byrne | RAW STORY Editor

In a sworn affidavit (pdf file) Monday, a former programmer for a NASA contractor said that he developed a vote-rigging prototype at the request of a then-Florida state representative who is now a member of the U.S. House of Representatives.

RAW STORY acquired the affidavit from The Brad Blog, which has been in contact with the programmer in Washington.

While working for Yang Enterprises in Florida, the 46-year-old programmer says he was instructed by then-Republican state representative Tom Feeney to “develop a prototype of a voting program that could alter the vote tabulation in the election and be undetectable.”

Feeney, a former failed running mate of Gov. Jeb Bush, now represents Florida’s 24th district in the House of Representatives. At the time, he was serving both as general counsel and lobbyist for Yang Enterprises and the Florida state congressman.

Feeney’s office in Orlando told RAW STORY they would check with the congressman and hoped to provide comment later today. A second call was placed this afternoon; the congressman’s press secretary was said to be “unavailable.”

A receptionist at Yang Enterprises said she would pass a message along to a vice president, who she said would return the call.

“They will give you a comment,” she said.

The programmer, Clinton Curtis, said that he was told the program needed to be “touch-screen capable, the user should be able to trigger the program without any additional equipment, [and that] the programming was to remain hidden even if the source code was inspected.”

Curtis asserts that he told Feeney it would be nearly impossible to write a code to change the voting results if anyone were able to view the source code.

“However,” he added, “if the code were compiled before anyone was allowed to review it then any vote fraud would remain invisible to detection.”

Nevertheless, he says that he was asked at the meeting by Yang to build the prototype anyway.

Curtis states he initially believed that Feeney’s sought to stop Democrats from using such a program and “wanted to be able to detect and prevent that if it occurred.”

It was not until after the prototype was delivered that he says he got wind of its possible, more nefarious usage.

According to his affidavit, Yang, his employer, later informed him that the software might be used to “control the vote in South Florida.” He says that he would never have developed the software had he known its alleged ultimate purpose.

Curtis details his claims on the fraud program in the affidavit:

In the vote fraud prototype that I created things are not what they seem. Hidden on the screen are invisible buttons. A person with knowledge of the locations of those invisible buttons can then use them to alter the votes of everyone before them. By clicking the correct order of invisible buttons the candidate selected by the user is compared to other candidates within that same race. If the candidate they selected is leading the race nothing happens. If the other candidate is leading the race the vote totals are altered so that the selected candidate is now leading the race with 51% of the vote. The other candidates then share the remaining 49% in exact proportion to the totals they had previously. In the prototype supplied to Feeney the vote totals show on the screen. In an actual application the user would receive no visible clues to the fraud that had just occurred. Since the vote is applied by race, any single race or multiple races can be altered. The supervisors or any other voter would never notice this fraud since no visible sign would appear. Additionally, the procedure could be repeated as many times as was necessary to achieve the desired results. No amount of testing or simulations would expose the fraud as its activation and process is completely invisible to everyone except the person programming the vote fraud routine.

The same procedure could be automated to activate without any user intervention whenever the machine detects a certain pattern of voting. The algorithm could also be altered from hidden keys or triggers that would allow the fraudulent user to manipulate both the margins and percentages of any particular race. In most national elections it is not necessary to win every area.

Yang Enterprises is currently under investigation by the FBI. Curtis has filed a suit with the state alleging the the firm also overbilled the state on another contract, and his report of an illegal alien resulted in the arrest of a Chinese national in March who is accused of sending information on radar guidance chips for the U.S. Hellfire missile to China.

Curtis’ affidavit has been turned over to the U.S. House Judiciary Committee for further investigation.

More details on this story are available at The Brad Blog. Further updates will be available at RAW STORY later tonight.

Developing…

Correction: An early iteration of this article referred to the programmer as Clinton Collins due to a transcription error. The name signed on the affidavit is Clinton Curtis. "

Amazing, isn't it?

Well, if Raw Story and the BradBlog say it's true, it must be true. Perhaps we should be concentrating on local politics and on finding some way to turn the democratic party from a bunch of nutso conspiracy theorists into a party that can win a damn election.

>>Cliff Arnebeck, Alliance for Democracy attorney and supporter of McCain in 2000, and former Republican was on Cspan.org and said he found 65,000 votes that migrated from Bush to Kerry meaning Kerry really won Ohio. He is filing a lawsuit this week.


Has this been confirmed by anyone else?

Chancellor, I'm not saying it's true, but notarized and all, on a sworn affadavit... it deserves a well lighted look coming from a 46 year old guy, who I find hard to believe wants to begin the criminal career at his age.

The source is no more or less reliable than some <ahem> mainstream media... cbs, nbc, cnn, or ack ...FOX

Suits being filed today, it seems.

Regarding local politics, state house and senate seats gained a lot of dems this outing, and trends will move to the next level in 2006. Hope!