Philzone.org Discussion Board: Archive 2004: Politics Archive 2004: Gun-Toting, NASCAR-driving Jesus!

Conan O'Brian's answer for the NE intellectual community to connect with the "red states". Jesus sporting a shotgun driving a mini-NASCAR car around the set.

AWESOME!

Jesus pic: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/dayart/20041116/Cartoon20041116.gif

Conan rules!

Funny cartoon Liz!

Jesus with a mullet

The alienation of the voting block that elected Bush (and used to elect democrats) continues. This sort of nose in the air, psuedo-intellectual, patronizing crap is why so many midwestern and southern voters no longer feel comfortable voting democrat. If someone made these jokes about Jews or Muslims, it would be some sort of civil rights issue. I voted, and will continue to vote, democrat, but am sick of this sort of pretentious ranting (though obviously I rant pretentiously, myself). Next step in the apparent democrat plan? Nominate Hillary--then we'll have president Jeb Bush for 8 years.

I hear what you are saying but as I look at the folks in my community, these comparisons of Bush supporters being:
1) selfish biz men
2) religious fanatics or
3) hicks and other easily pursuaded simpletons
... hit damn close to the truth.

>>>>>The alienation of the voting block that elected Bush (and used to elect democrats) continues. This sort of nose in the air, psuedo-intellectual, patronizing crap is why so many midwestern and southern voters no longer feel comfortable voting democrat.


Yeah, and people in the midwest never make fun of NYers and city people and hollywood types, etc.

Actually, those folks have been making fun of liberals a hell of a lot more than liberals make fun of them--because liberals have fooled themselves into thinking that they share common values with these people. Heartlend red state people know better. Liberals are finally allowing themselves to reflect back the sort of open dislike that's been flowing to the left for years. I live in red country, and I can tell you that my neighbors think you are all immoral and vote exactly how Streisand tells you. The more you make nice, the more they think you are all weak and they want to vote exactly the opposite of you.

They hate us because we're beautiful.

Some of them voted for Carter and Clinton--what happened to them? So if you don't make nice, do you think insults will work? I take your points, but something has to give.

>>>>So if you don't make nice, do you think insults will work? I take your points, but something has to give.

Will work to do what? Make them like us? They didn't like us before and they don't like us now, and it doesn't keep me up nights.



As for something giving, I assume you mean like we should nominate candidates more to their liking, and lick their asses by promising not to support gay marriage? In case you haven't notice, pretending to be like them isn't working.

WE are the ones who are alienated. THEY are the majority.

I just mean there are (I seem to remember) candidates that can manage to win the 20 % of voters who actually decide elections. This year, it was Bush. Surely you take my meaning--centrist candidates win elections, and leftist propoganda like the cartoon above and the village voice often seem to alienate people and give the impression that all democrats are liberal fanatics. As for licking asses; sounds like a different website.

>>>leftist propoganda like the cartoon above

Not propaganda, it's satire; if there were not a large amount of truth to it we wouldnt think it funny.

Centrist candidates have lost the last two elections.

Perhaps we should be more centrist? There's always Zell Miller. Who is more centrist than Lieberman or Kerry?

I assure you that republicans say far far far worse things about liberals than anything on this thread. I say go ahead and recognize that there IS a cultural war. Lets all lay down our cards and sort this out.

My concern in the election was less about electing Kerry, than about figuring out what this country is all about. And the majority of this country is all about fear-induced belligerence and hating gays. You can suck up to those folks and offer candidates who share their values if you want, but I'm about creating a different culture that openly rejects those values. a cultural pizza, not a melting pot.


I wish I could say that I believe that people will eventually come to their senses and choose to join us, but if we join them, we have truly lost. Have some standards. I can't help it if the majority in this country is stupid and afraid, but that doesn't mean I have to tell my kids it is OK to be stupid and afraid.

>>>I'm about creating a different culture that openly rejects those values. a cultural pizza, not a melting pot.

Or as M. Franti put it: "I dont think we should be a melting pot, Id prefer fruit salad, where a strawberry is not afraid to be a strawberry."

The slim majority that elected Bush was put over the top, in my opinion, by moderate folks afraid to vote for what they saw as an elite, condescending intellectual--all I'm saying is that some things I've seen in the Village Voice and the above cartoon did nothing to mitigate that perception.

Yet these so-called moderate folks DID vote for a member of the elite. Bush is of course no intellectual, but his is Yankee blueblood to the core, no matter how hard anyone spins him as being a Texan. It is likely the public relations coup of the century that Bush is sold as this decent, man-of-the-people, "the kind of guy you could have a beer with (if, of course, he wasn't a recovering alcoholic)"! Bush is old money, Connecticut bred, plain and simple. Ah fuck, now you got me all pissed off.

"things I've seen in the Village Voice and the above cartoon did nothing to mitigate that perception"

Things tend to sting when they reek of the truth,
however you do not address the bald faced lies and propaganda (REAL propaganda) spread by the right and the ruling party

Sounds like you'd rather hide your head in the sand than have people publically satirise these waves of Nationalism and dividing policies

I'd rather be anticipating 4 years of John Kerry, and if I hid my head in the sand, I wouldn't...well, never mind. I just know a whole lot of "undecided" voters who had a very hard time voting for Kerry because so many of his most vociferous supporters seemed so anti-christian, anti blue collar, anti...well, I guess sort of anti South. I hear you about the other side's propoganda, but it seemed like our side's didn't work as well as their side's. Didn't mean to make anyone angry--I just do this for kicks, so I'll probably leave it with you from here on out.

No one is angry with you, just our dumb country and dumb president.

On that, we can agree.

The slim majority that elected Bush was put over the top, in my opinion, by moderate folks afraid to vote for what they saw as an elite, condescending intellectual<<

some people just effing beg condescension

so-called midwestern 'moral values' voters chief among them.

Meanwhile, Bush borrows another page from the commie handbook, ridding the govt. of POLICY-minded dissenters, while loading it POLITICS-minded toadies. F him and anyone who voted for him. There's enough blood for all hands.

>>The slim majority that elected Bush was put over the top, in my opinion, by moderate folks afraid to vote for what they saw as an elite, condescending intellectual

Excuse me, but how fucking stupid do you need to be to think that Kerry is an intellectual. Do they know what an intellectual is?

I am an elitist, condescending, intellectual--not Kerry; and they are ignorant and narrow minded.

So there.

Well, if liberals continue to wish for a more accurate perception rather than try to create one, we will be under a conservative regime for a long time. And no one should be seen to deserve condescension--not liberals, not conservatives, not zoners, not christians--no one. The ability to approach those with you whom you disagree without condescension is, in my opinion, what being tolerant and open minded means. You don't have to tolerate those with whom you agree--it's the other ones who require tolerance. Why does niether side understand that?

>>> we will be under a conservative regime for a long time.

define long time. 49% to 51% is very close. After 4 more years of Bush some of those 51% are going to change thier minds. I would also project that 20 years from now, the christians will no longer be the majority and a more progressive constituency will prevail.

As for Kerry being percieved as condescending... when Bush enterered politics he learned his lesson and had to dumb down the tone of his delivery. Thinking that Bush was more in line with blue collar people prooves how gullible these folks are. That perception is absolutely inconsistent with the truth.

... and by the way, IMO the intollerance and lack of respect is coming from the conservatives; in fact that is the cause of much of our current division.

In what way are liberals being intollerant?

anyone know this exact quote and who said it? something along the lines of...

"democracy will become perfected to the point where the people will elect one of thier own" (an idiot)

Of course the intolerance comes from the conservatives, but the condescension (same difference) is gushing from the left. Not everyone who voted for Bush is stupid, or blinded by religion, or homophobic. I may think they are all wrong, but I respect any vote cast thoughtfully and sincerely. I know a lot of people who voted for Bush, and own guns, and hunt, and go to Babtist Churches--and they are good folks. I don't really get it sometimes, but I don't think they're all ignorant troglodytes. Both sides need to grow up a little and stop acting like petulant children trading insults on the playground. "You're stupid!" "Well, you're too smart!" "Well, you're christian." "Well, you're gay!" It belittles everyone involved.

What, no one's going to bite?

"stupid is as stupid does"

Actualy I dont think they are stupid. I do think they are ignorant, intolerant and narrowminded.

Not much I cant do to change that perception as it is based on real evidence.

Considering all the hinky shit that went (and is going) on with regard to voter suppression, touch-screen machines, vote-total manipulation, etc., Bush's alleged 51% is highly questionable.