Philzone.org Discussion Board: Archive 2004: Music Talk Archive 2004: Underrated?

There is a dumb post in Other Stuff saying the Beatles were overrated, must be a child of the 90's who started it. Anyway it got me thinking about some older music, here is the game:name an LP (thats vinyl for you kids)that you think is UNDERATED and try not to repeat one entry per person

1)Cahoots-The Band

Son of Schmilsson - Harry Nilsson

The Captain & Me - Doobie Brothers

After Bathing at Baxter's ~ Jefferson Airplane

Two underrated classics from the eternally underappreciated band the Pretty Things:

Parachute-Rolling Stone's Album of the Year in 1970 (when RS had a great deal more cred)

SF Sorrow-the very first rock opera, inspired Pete Townsend to write Tommy

tangerine dream--electronic meditation

The International Submarine Band (feat. Gram Parsons)--Safe At Home.

27 minutes of the best, Stone Country ever recorded.

Nice pick on Gram.
I would've picked GP.

Neil Young - Time Fades Away

JJ Cale - #8

Hot Tuna Burgers

Terrapin Station

Neil Young - On the Beach

Nashville Pussy..."High As Hell"

Struttin' Cock | Shoot First | Run Like Hell | She's Got The Drugs | Wrong Side Of The Gun | Piece Of Ass | High As Hell | You Ain't Right | Go To Hell | Rock And Roll Outlaw | Let's Ride | Blowjob From A Rattlesnake | Drive


Phunny phuckin' stuff...and they RRRRRRRRROCK, too.

Orrrr...yooz COULD go with this one...

Nashville Pussy..."Let Them Eat Pussy"

Snake Eyes | You're Goin' Down | Go Motherfucker Go | I'm the Man | All Fucked Up | Johnny Hotrod | 5 Minutes to Live | Somebody Shoot Me | Blowin' Smoke | First I Look at the Purse | Eat My Dust | Fried Chicken and Coffee

I got a whole slew of under rated vinyl, some of it even pressed this year.

Acid Mothers Temple - Pataphysical Freak Out - MU

Fleetwood Mac - Mystery to Me/Heroes are Hard to Find (both w/ Bob Welch, John & Christine McVie -the classic lineup in my opinion)

"Heartattack and Vine" Tom Waits 1980....classic stuff

"Good Feeling To Know" - Poco

BUt I gotta agree with a previous poster....Harry Nillson's "Son of Schmilsson " is crimanallu underated. George Harrison, Lowell George...lot'sa good musician's on that old LP. Damn, gonna have to go dig it out now.....
later

the Leaves ~ the Leaves are Happening

Camper Van Beethoven ~ Key Lime Pie

Super Sessions ~ Bloomfield/Kooper/Stills
(well, not underrated here anyway)

Will the circle be unbroken..... Nitty Gritty Dirt Band and others.

Super Session, YES

Self Portrait ~ Bob Dylan

Amen on Son of Schmilsson - Harry Nilsson

Add Canned Heat, no specific album, just underapreciated in general.

Might have been me who said the Beatles were overrated and I'm going to be 47 in a few days.

As for underrated, I'd throw in Dylan's "Empire Burlesque"--great songs. So so production.

"Good Old Boys"--Randy Newman

Bluetrain

It was someone named Solomon Grundy

See you at Tuna? I am in Loge row F

Yeah Al-trane, "Empire Burlesque" is a solid Dylan album though...wasn't panned when it came out. Got pretty good reviews. What about "Hard Rain"? That's a damn good cracker with lots of energy.

Gotta mention 2 more

"Voice of the Turtle"-John Fahey
"At Yankee Stadium"-NRBQ

The Vapors: New Clear Days. Every single song is a winner.

MAX CREEK! The most underated band EVAH!

Ringo Starr's "Time Takes Time" -- VERY "Beatle-esque...

Magical Mystery Tour- The Beatles
prolly my fave beatles album

I LOVE eMPIRE bURLESQUE

Steve Hillage- Fish Rising

Oh man......I agree with Gunner again!?!?
What's happenning here?

Coltrane "Sound," my favorite Coltrane album. It's overshadowed by "Favorite Things," which was released around the same time.

Hot Tuna - Double Dose
Frank Zappa - Live at the Roxy & Elsewhere
Frank Zappa - One Size Fits All

Electric Music for the Mind & Body ~ Country Joe & the Fish

John Coltrane . . . .


Oh sorry I thought this thread was an Overrated thread.

>John Coltrane . . . .
>Oh sorry I thought this thread was an Overrated thread.

I don't follow.

Little Feat - "Feats Don't Fail Me Now"

Supertramp - Crime of the Century
Mike Kennealy in general
Genesis - Foxtrot
Indiginous - Indiginous
Kingfish - Live
Pickin on Zeppelin

Captain Beefheart and his Magic Band--"Safe As Milk"

"Trout Mask Replica" gets all the attention, but I like this precursor better. "Clear Spot" is another great Beefheart album too.

Black Crowes--"Southern Harmony and Musical Companion" (or something like that)

Van Der Graff Generator - Pawn Hearts

Be Bop Deluxe - "Axe Victim"

wow if you really think john coltrane is overrated you have some serious issues. you should be kissing his fuckin ass for every "jam" band you listen to these days of which cant hold cole's tuning fork.

cactus - one way or another
savoy brown - street corner talking
the stooges - fun house

Savoy Brown ~ Lookin' In

Kim Simmonds is an extraordinary guitar player.

Southern Culture on the Skids - Plastic Seat Sweat
Coltrane overrated? HAHAHAHA I bet you like Phish

Johnny Copeland

Rolling Stones - Goats Head Soup
Van Morrison - Common One

Well said, Tripp.

>wow if you really think john coltrane is overrated you have some serious issues. you should be kissing his fuckin ass for every "jam" band you listen to these days of which cant hold cole's tuning fork.

Wow . . . talk about issues . . . .why so defensive?

If you want to talk music that's great. . . when I have the time I like to do the same.

I'm not saying that Coltrane sucks . . .just overrated. For so many Deadheads Jazz starts and ends with Coltrane. Just because of his influence on the Dead, that's all deadheads (and by extension jam band fans) seem to think is out there.

Listen around. . there's a whole world outside of Coltrane though you'd never know it talking to jamband fans.

What are your other favorite in the Jazz arena besides Coltrane?

My handle states Django as huge in every way . . .

DJ, trust me im a jazz drumming major and if anyone knows the history in jazz in this thread it would be me. whether he seems to be the only jazz artists some deadhead seem to know, hes still influential as fuck. heres some of my faves besides coltrane: Django, Wes Montgomery, Buddy Rich, Gene Crupa, Gary Burton, Monk, the Marsalis family, Chick Corea, Jaco Pastorius, Duke, Vince Guaraldi, COunt Basie, Clifford Brown, Charlie Parker, Dave Holland, Al Foster, Philly Joe Jones, Airto, Joe Zawinul, Scofield, John Patittuci, Tony Williams just to name a few

Coltrane is a small part of my Jazz affection....but god, you can hear Coltrane's influence constantly in Garcia solos.
Other Jazz faves - Miles Davis, Weather Report, Chick Corea, Pat Metheny, Mike Stern, Passport,Micheal Brecker, Living Daylights, Herbie Hancock, Jack DeJohnette...I could go on

Cheers to the Savoy Brown lovers

today's underrated:
Van Morisson - No Guru, No Method, No Teacher

Stan Getz aint too shabby

Cheers to Pat Metheny, Gunnar.
Gotta love Wichita Falls.

Thanks Tripp. . .. . I appreciate the discussion. Good luck with the studying Jazz drumming.

>DJ, trust me im a jazz drumming major and if anyone knows the history in jazz in this thread it would be me.

There's an academic approach to Jazz that claims superiority, but don't overlook people who listen to Jazz because it really moves them. . . and not all Jazz, but the stuff that moves them. Based on the offense you took to my comment and your subsequent claim that if anyone knows Jazz history it's you, I'd say when you get a little older you'll appreciate that different people have different ears and not get too worked up by flippant comments that Coltrane is overrated.

A few key players that I really like that aren't in your list:

Bass - Milt Hinton - He swings so hard with melodic Bach like lines. You'll hear him beautifully play the 3 or a flat 7 on the One instead of root within chords that has a lot more melodic structure than you hear from a lot of bassists. Check out his stuff with Ralph Sutton on Piano.

Ralph Sutton Piano - Fats Waller Style (you also didn't mention Fats . . . please don't tell me they're ignoring him in Jazz school) Again the stride playing and swinging rhythm gives this Jazz more punch than so much of the stuff that is more cerebral than visceral. Also the left hand again doing fantastic melodic lines that aren't random walking bass lines.

And as a Jazz Drummer you have to check out Jerry Grannelli. Played drums with Vince Guaraldi on the Peanuts stuff. Since then is a professor in Berlin I believe and has put out a number of albums under his own name. Personal favorites are witht he UFB band.

My challenge to you . . .pick three from the laundry list above and give me some pointers on why they are your faves. My agenda, is to gain more appreication for artists that I currently don't have.

Cheers.

right on,
yeah man, to list all of my influences would have taken years, thanks for the input and support

I jutht think Michael Bolton ith BRILLIANT!

Pharoah Sanders - Jewels of Thought (or any album for that matter)

I think alot of GD fans would dig Pharoah's stuff.

sons of chaplin
jessie colin young
david grismen
these people been around for a long while putting out great music...
but only small audiences go.....

Django - I understand your point, but just because Coltrane is one of the few jazzmen known to those who don't know much about jazz does not make him overrated. His body of work and influence attest to that. An art afficianado could say the same thing about Picasso, but that does not deny his importance.
In addition to the obvious, I'll take: McCoy Tyner, Sonny Rollins, Sonny Stitt, Jason Moran, Josh Redman, Christian McBride, Mingus, Joe Lovano, the guy playing sax on the streetcorner, the trio in a restaurant...

Fair enough . . . the guy obviosuly left a mark on the scene.

By the way, what's up with the Pretty Things. I never heard of them but they seem to go back pretty far. They're plaing here in Germany at the end of November. I figure I should go but have no idea what I'd be going for. . . . any opinions?

yes, by all means go and see the Pretty Things! they made some of the best psychpop/freakbeat/rollicking R&B sounds of the 60s/early 70s...contemporaries of the Kinks, Stones, Who, Creation, Yardbirds, Small Faces, etc, but never had much of a following outside of the UK and Northern Europe...it is a bloody shame that more folks have not had the pleasure of exposure to the Pretties...apparently David Gilmour plays on one of their newer releases...true unsung heroes

Today's underrated-
Chick Corea Akoustic Band

dude akoustic band is so incredible, weckl, patittucci and corea

TYA - Ten Years After

"woodchoppers ball"

Today's underrated-
Passport - Cross Collateral

Tenacious D- Tenacious D
some pretty damn good moments in this one

Bruce Cockburn: Wonderin' Where The Lions Are

Blues Project - Projections
Youngbloods - Elephant Mountain
Spirit - first album

Mickey Hart - Rolling Thunder (Garcia, Cipollina, Melton & Haggerty jammin' together - need I say more?)

mattyb is correct - Clear Spot rocks!

Hey Surfdead,
Ya named some classics.
Love all the bands.
I'd go with "Clear" as my Spirit album.
Early Jesse Colin Young was real good, too.

Uncle Tupelo.

Sorry, you said an LP; I like the first two the best; Still Feel Gone and No Depression.

Savoy Brown is playing a cool little club called Planet Highbridge in Highbrudge, NJ tomorrow night. 11/13 9pm. Tix still available.

today's underrated-

Moving Sidewalks - Flash

featuring a pre-ZZTop Billy Gibbons on lead vox,gtr.

anything by richard thompson ~ today I'm gonna choose, um, rumor & sigh...

Good call skadhi!
I love RT. I'm listening to a 99 show of his from Hopland, Ca right now. Ahhh...Bees Wing>1952 Vincent Black Shadow.

My fave album of his is "Shoot out the Lights" with Linda.

Hmm I hear more Art Tatum in Jer's jazz inflections than Coltrane. Except for maybe the Coltrane influenced by Ravi Shankar.

>>DJ, trust me im a jazz drumming major and if anyone knows the history in jazz in this thread it would be me. whether he seems to be the only jazz artists some deadhead seem to know, hes still influential as fuck. heres some of my faves besides coltrane: Django, Wes Montgomery, Buddy Rich, Gene Crupa,<<

That's "Krupa" jazz drummer major
LOL!

Ahh damn your right, my bad

"Hmm I hear more Art Tatum in Jer's jazz inflections than Coltrane. Except for maybe the Coltrane influenced by Ravi Shankar".

Please elaborate. I love and have extensively listened to both musicains and have trouble making that comparison. A coltrane comparison might be ill-advised, but decidedly less so than Tatum. Shit, even other _piano_ players don't sound like that cat.

I think in this day and age Richard Thompson has gotten his due or had his flicker in the mainstream light in the late 90's. I have seen RT several times and really only enjoyed him twice. The other times I was left with sort of a bad taste in my mouth. I like the Richard & Linda stuff the best and of course I really only listen to the Dick years of Fairport Convention.

The First Dick and Danny show that I saw was one I liked. The other show was an electric show which also featured Danny Thompson on bass. Other wise it was festival shows that were short and snide with a whole lot of "....I bet you'd love to see me play this.....but nah..." sort of thing. Weird dude for sure.

As I am typing this,I am listening to a contemporary of Fairports, Pentangle. Now this is an underrated band! I love Bert Jansch!

Also, while we are talking Dick, one musn't forget his efforts with The Golden Paliminos and Henry Kaiser. IMNSHO, Richard Thompson's best guitar playing is with Henry.

>Please elaborate.

It's in the joy.

Underrated?
Is there any doubt?
The Kinks.

>>Please elaborate.

>It's in the joy.

wow . . . nicely put Olo

>As I am typing this,I am listening to a contemporary of Fairports, Pentangle. Now this is an underrated band! I love Bert Jansch!

Holy Mackeral . . . Pentangle. John Renbourn is one of the few players who has left me with my jaw on the floor and it took me a couple of days to pick it up. Not from Pentangle though they are definitely underrated. I thought I saw in a Deadbase they opened for the dead a few times in 70 or something? Would love to know if Bear recorded their set.

But the John Renbourn experience. Checking out a DVD of 30 years of renbourn or some such thing. A later piece he is playing solo (I believe it was Great Dreams From Heaven). Laid me out like my first time really hearing every note of a sweetly played Franklins. 'xcept John Renbourn was doing it solo. Unbelieveable.

There are some excellent Richard Thompson live recordings available through his website - I have most of them and they're all great.

The two studio albums by French, Frith, Kaiser & Thompson are gems also

Amorica- Black Crowes
The Bends - Radiohead (just because OK Computer and Kid A get all the attention)
'88-'90 Dead Shows (Yeah, I know its not an album. Sue me.)

robert palmer-

Sneakin salley through the alley

if you havent heard it....hear it!

Scott

Great pick , thats the one with most of Little Feat as the backing band if I am correct

great cd

Thunderclap Newman's "Hollywood Dream"

aahhhhhh, but what the heck......

I love Thunderclap Newman's "Something in the Air".

Miles Davis - on the corner
Yes - tales of topographic oceans
Led Zep - presence
Pink Floyd - animals
Santana - milagro
Skatalites - ball of fire
Eagles - on the border
Van Halen - fair warning
Eric Clapton - no reason to cry
Molly Hatchets 1st LP was great but the rest suck
Blind Melon - soup

Oh and cant forget John Prine's 1st 2 LP's - John Prine & Sweet Revenge

I love Thunderclap Newman's "Something in the Air"

Dyer, that song the way it's produced has the studio effect of a bomb going off.

tree,

It's a great song. I've never heard a full album of theirs. What's good?
Didn't Speedy Keen play geeeetar for 'em?

i believe it's out of print.

Os Mutantes. The best Brazilian band ever.

Fela Kuti, the king of afro-beat.

Os Mutantes. The best Brazilian band ever.

Fela Kuti, the king of afro-beat. Try Shufering and Shmiling.

Don't know if he's been mentioned yet, but Greg Brown.

Today's underrated: The Bad Plus

The Dirtbombs--"Ultraglide in Black"

Do yourself a favor and check it out!

Tom Petty - Echo

Mark Knopfler - Sailing to Philadelphia

Pearl Jam - No Code

Bill Frisell - Nashville

Bob Dylan - Love and Theft

Tommy Bolin. Now, can I get a witness?

Tommy Bolin was great on Billy Cobham's Spectrum album. Quadrant 4 kicks ass. You have a witness.

Carlos Santana & Buddy Miles: Live......Got in on right now, listening to the last track Free Form Funkafide Filth, the horn section definately was a plus for this album